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Author Topic: retreat question  (Read 4242 times)

msm_04

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retreat question
« on: January 11, 2010, 01:26:47 PM »

I've been reading how some have retreats already setup... For those who can't afford to have a second area/retreat, what would your suggestion be????? We have been thinking on buying a bus and driving to a secluded area, and setting up camp,seeing we don't have additional property..... What would be the thought on this?????? Thanks
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Jerry D Young

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 01:08:23 PM »

It is a viable idea, in my opinion. It wouldn't be quite as good if the situation is nuclear, but it would be adequate for many things less than a nuclear attack. Depending on exactly where you would go, you might be amongst a swarm of people with the same idea and need to consider that.

Be on the lookout all around where you live and travel for suitable fallout shelter space that you could hopefully use that other people might not think about.

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msm_04

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 02:51:49 PM »

We had given the nuclear issue a thought... My plan was to dig out my hillside and place/bury a couple of 40 ft conex trailers, then cover with concrete and the back fill the dirt over the whole thing....  But with this I'd have to have a separate well dug (on community well rite now), another drain Field for septic..... Along with all this a couple of solar panels and a wind gen..... But lost job and on unemployment so funds have pretty much dried up.... Being 40+ miles from town it doesn't make much since to work part time and for minimum wage (wouldn't cover the gas)..... So the thought dropped back to a bus..... Can stock it with supplies and be ready to roll at a moments notice.... Just load the family, dog, cat, and the boom sticks..... The place we have planned to go to has one road in..... Figure once there I can fall trees across the road to restrict access make camp several miles from where trees were dropped..... Also gives a tactical advantage as the area bottle necks and plenty of hill tops.... But just my thoughts....
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Canuck In Denver

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 12:26:18 PM »

The bus is a decent idea. I've thought of it myself, getting an old school bus and use it for a BOV or any of a number of uses. The funny part is that the longer buses are cheaper than the mid-size ones. It is easy enough to shorten them. School buses are also built to MUCH higher standards than RVs, I've seen RV's built... won't take one for free aside from to sell it.

With a school bus you can do whatever you want to the interior. That means you can really seal off one area for nuclear/bio/chem situations and have filtered air in there for whoever is inside. The driver can wear a NBC suit and mask. One thing I've heard of is using Russian filters, they have a port on the bottom to screw in another filter - for vehicle use a NATO NBC filter (40mm threads) is screwed into the Russian filter (also 40mm), just unscrew the NATO filter when needed and put a new one on. There are some people that screw more than one Russian filter together.

A school bus is also a 5 ton truck chassis and has a lot of towing capacity. You can easily pull a full size 4x4 and gear in a trailer behind it.

Yes, you can keep it stocked with supplies. One suggestion, get a bus with the wheelchair lift if you can. It makes getting things in easier plus it locks... then you can lock the main doors when you are not in the bus or at night.

I've seen a lot of nice conversions done to former school buses - cargo racks on the roof, ladders on the back, benches that convert into beds that also have storage underneath. Wood stoves can be put in, I would put the chimney through the roof and then put a plastic tote or something over it to hide the chimney when not in use. A couple of those eco fans that use the heat to spin the blades will get heat moved around nicely.

Storage boxes like on the bottom of semi trailers can be put on to keep tools and spare parts as well. Heavy duty receivers on front and back will allow you to use a winch from either end should the need arise, get one of those receiver hitch steps for the rest of the time.
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texican

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 01:07:30 PM »

msm-04:

you can build a dugout with cut trees. 

if you have a public forest nearby that allows tree cutting especially old dead tress that have dried or trees on your property, you can excavate an area into your hill.  clean the bark and limb knobs off the logs.  Set several post along each wall and several posts down the center of your excavation.  compact the ground where the wall logs are to lay.  Install a roll of 90 pound roofing down the center of the wall log run then stack the logs just like a log cabin and then install trees across the ceiling roof.  slope the roof ceiling to the exterior.  remember to counter lay the trees so that you have a thick end then a slim end as you lay the trees.  peg the trees together, drill holes in the trees and drive 1/2" or 3/4" rebar at 2' to 3' on center and 2 to 3'  deep the next row of rebar needs to penetrate the last log that has a rebar in it.  You can also over drill the hole - install sealant then drive in the rebar.  you can install sealant between the logs for extra water proofing. 

depending on the span to rest your roof ceiling logs on, along the center line of posts install a double or triple 2x6's to 2x12's beam attached to the posts .  remember to slope to the exterior - this can be done by having the top wall logs taper from the rear to front. 

after the logs are all in place, spray all exposed surfaces with an oil based preservative, then wrap and nail the outside runs of 90 pound roofing up to the wall.  Install foam board (Minimum 1" but thicker if you can afford it) over the roof and walls.

check with your local commercial roofing company and see if they have any old single ply roofing that you could haul off or by cheaply.  Install a layer of plastic over the building sealing the laps with silicone sealant.   Then install a layer of the single ply roofing (two layers on the roof and on the walls if you have enough.) seal the laps with silicone sealer.  Make certain that the wall ply overlaps the 90 pound roofing. 

Install drainage board over the walls.  Install 16" tires or truck tires flat around the walls and back fill with dirt as you install each row of tires.   install drain piping between the wall and the first row of tires and cover with rock.  You can install drain fabric around the rock and drain pipe.   The tires are used to help reduce soil pressure on the walls. 

Will add more later. 


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msm_04

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 03:10:45 PM »

texican:

We have given building other structures such as log cabins and such once we get to where we want to be...... I think we have decided on going with the buses.... We can set up the buses and stock them with supplies and pretty much be ready to go other then loading wife, kids, dog, and the few extras to get along.... It'll also allow to have a shelter until the other structures can be built...
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texican

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 11:11:49 PM »

msn-04

buses will work, but offer very little protection from fallout radiation unless you line the bus.  Remember, fallout radation will penetrate through the floor as well as the walls and ceiling.

Texican.

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msm_04

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 01:18:01 AM »

Texican

Very true a bus offers very little protection from fallout let alone chemical..... Depending on what type of radiation is in the fallout you're truly screwed...... We watched a show the other nite, and from what I can remember there are 3 types mainly used. With 1 there is minimum amount needed to shield from it and was more lethal if inhaled. The other was strong enough to cause damage as far as 50ft and thru walls and such..... I believe the show was a what if response to a dirty bomb.... Our main coarse of action is to get away from the chaos in the event of civil unrest, martial law, riots, etc..... I'd luv nothing more to build a shelter, but am limited in $$$$$$..... The other thing is setting up filtration for air, and venting the shelter..... Along with being able to keep it powered.... The main thing for the bus is using it as a major bug out vehicle.... Can have the bus completely ready to go if the need arises...
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Darren

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »

Is there any like minded folks that you are in contact with on a personal basis?? This would allow you and family to get to a safe area and with your "community" and pool resources. Having limited funds should not deter you from your goal. It is do-able but I did not say easy. Finding like minded folks can be daunting but you need others to survive (my opinion). I don't think anyone can do it alone, as others have stated you need a variety of skills and only with others can you survive. We are all in the same boat trying to find other like minded folks.
Your idea of a bus is great as a BOV and shelter. It can also act as storage for your supplies, be it staples (food) books, tools, etc. Just make sure it is fully fueled.
As far as NCBW I can't answer that, but anything is better than nothing, depending on distance.
If funds are limited remember you have your mind, this can be your greatest advantage, learn what you can that will be of value if TSHTF.   Do you have skills that others seek? This could be an "in" to a great group. As long as you are aware and learning new skills I believe you can be an asset. Remember that the average person isn't even aware we are in deep do do yet !! So you are miles ahead. Good luck.
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Blueduck

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 02:44:40 PM »

The weakest point of an old school bus is the floor, they are not designed to hold huge loads, though people have been known to use them for hauling cattle in with minimal addition being done, you need to reinforce the floor where  you would stack very much weight, or at least be able to redistribute the weight over a larger enough area as not to have the "stack" fall through the floor......

Ive been around a couple of school bus conversion, one for basically transport of 4-H folks, and a couple others that were hunting camps [same as a BOV only easier to explain to the locals] One nice thing is you can put your own FULL SIZE propane stove in and can actually have room to cook for a mess of folks if you have to, and you have the room to can on it too [also nice to use in the late summer and early fall when it is hot inside the house and you want the canning heat left outside....more justification]  I would add a 4-5 foot expanded metal back deck extension [inset from both sides just a wee bit for looks] to set the propane tank(s) and extra water barrel on, and make it easier to load and unload through the door, similar to the lift but stationary and not as spendy. also used to set food off if you have a group to feed without having them traipse thru the bus [whether that be 3 or more folks in your family to a whole group of a MAG]

if you get the right bus, you may already have a "basement" underneath makes it easier to run any plumbing you might want to do and keep it from the elements, be it propane line, or water for self contained running.  with the invention of the flex water pipe it is easy to run water service and not to hard to keep it warm if you also run along side of a heating vent [yes i can understand you dont want this atm, but one day....] i would place the potable water tanks on the main floor, and the black water-grey water tanks under the frame with the clean out similar to any other RV system, the reason for me is i do hunt, and any water in the main compartment is sheilded from the cold that much more.... plus its nicer to reach the water pump if you have to work on it or replace it [been there]

think about a small box stove for burning wood for heat, but also add a blower to tie into your floor vents, warm feet equal "happy campers" and also keeps the supply lines from freezing up..... all it takes is a small squirrel cage blower hooked to a couple of pipes wrapped around the stove, not some huge monstrosity of a tin box that takes up space.... Aluminum bubble wrap will reflect heat off the walls and keep any wiring from getting excessively hot [shiny side out if you just use foil paper, which is not to code but it has been done by many folks in their log cabins and the stove set way to close to the wall and they have no problems... use common sense though] 

If you purchase an old RV motorhome that is damaged you can get quite a few neat things like a roof air and a genset sometimes for near nothing and swap them over to the bus, my digging partner picked up an RV with rof damage from snow, for $400 and it had a 6.5 KW twin cyl. ONAN genset..... $4000.00 new for that alone!  plus dual roof air, nice RV shower, plus some other stuff that was salvageable and he drove it 120 miles home while i followed [whole nother trip but we made it]

One friend who lives up at Fairbanks bought an old city bus that was already prepped for artic weather [6 inches of foam insulation in the floor, walls and cieling] and converted it to live in.... but he added a diesel stove though when it got to negative 70 F he was using 55 gallons of fuel every 3 days.... he found a lady professor that took him in for now.... and they run a dog shelter! [another story waiting to be told] and his bus i believe has been once again converted to run a 24-7 micro-broadcast radio station.  He had one sitting in my yard and we put up about an 85 foot tower...... and the FCC knew where we were, but we were down at the time they flew around us checking the signal strength out..... we had blown an amp the week before, yet again a whole different story line to get into on communications and entertainment. But that bus was a 1964 Hayward with a pusher and the escape door was on the driver side near the rear wheels, which is where he had put his wood stove.... I used to have pictures, but they are locked on an old HD that crashed....

Add a awning off the side, very decent investment, gives you added space outside the rig to set up a table and store some gear that takes space inside..... if the unit has a basement, add "drawer rails" so you can get things out and not have to crawl inside to get them.... again experience and not really that much extra dollars in setting up in the beginning, though by the time you set it all up to livable, you will have outspent some lesser valued RV motor homes but you will have what you desire for less than you can have it built for.

On the roof, i would add a storage rack and platform that you could "sandbag" and have the ability to shoot off of similar in design of a tower only shorter, designed correctly it will also be a platform to hook up solar panels to for charging a battery bank, and communication towers later on...... forethought.

need more ideas???  you can also did a utility trailer in a similar manner but you need something to pull it with.



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Canuck In Denver

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 10:22:21 PM »

All good ideas on converting a bus. With any luck one day I will do some converting on a bus :)
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Gungnir

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2012, 12:59:50 PM »

i know this topic is dead but in eastern manitoba there was a small gold rush many years ago.
There are literaly hundreads of abandoned mines, and mine camp. I have been camping there since i was just a little Gungnir with my dad, its wher ehe taught me how to use a compuse, use a topo map, hunt, fish, steralize water, build a shelter, etc. The more remote you get the more goodies you can find (windmills, tractors with tanks full of desil, camp buildings etc. It is crown property meaning anyone can use it, the mineral claims have all run out long ago, etc. If you could pump put a an old mine that should be enough to filter out radiation, and for all others just take advantage of the already built camp cabins (we hiked to one when i was about 16 and it even had old newspapers and on the tabels, some tables were stil set with metal plates) Pretty much the mines go bankrupt and it cost to much to haule the equipment out leaving everything there up for scavenger rights. My uncle went out once and even got an old bull dozer going, then cam back in the winter when the swamp land was frozen, spent 5 days driveing it out to the main road loaded it up on a trailor and claimed it as his own ....... legally!!!
The area is full of small lakes full of fish, small and large game, and plenty of fresh water!!!!
I love Canada :D
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Canuck In Denver

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2012, 08:55:17 PM »

An old mine could be a great place for a retreat. All that earth above you makes a good insulator from heat or cold, and as you said would help with shielding from radiation. It would also help protect you from a tornado or a really nasty solar flare that reached here.

I've thought about some of the old abandoned mines in northern Ontario and would love to spend a summer looking for one. It would be easy to camouflage it to make it look even more run down while improving the inside to make sure it was save and homey.
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Gungnir

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2012, 04:17:13 PM »

you can actually buy maps that will tell you the cordinates of the mine shafts, just contact the provincial mining department.Beware while looking for them though, some are capped off with concrete and some are openand flooded with heavy over growth over top of them. These one are death traps since they either have no markers, or the claim marker is simply a rotted tree with remnince of a rusty tag. I bet a google search could even bring up the info. Next time I head out to visit my parents i will take a look at my dads maps (some of them are for ontario boardering the nopaming provincial park) and see if i can dig up some cordinates for you.
Often these maps will have portage trails, and little markers of historic (well not really historic but intersering info) about some areas.
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Canuck In Denver

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Re: retreat question
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2012, 10:08:08 PM »

That would be cool :)

I've never got around to it since it isn't something I'm going to do anytime soon. Maybe next summer, or possibly this fall depending on finances allowing for gas costs. Living in the Fargo, ND area means 7-8 hours of driving to get to northern Ontario, which is actually closer than when I lived in Toronto.
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